Notes I took while listening to:
Concave Earth SESSIONS 2 - YouTubeThe participants in this sessions are:
serendipitous member @lordstevenchrist:
serendipitous.boards.net/post/935/threadserendipitous member @jondeveaugh:
concaveearth.blogspot.com/Joseph Winthrop:
www.youtube.com/user/wellexcel/videosPeter Flatland:
Peter Flatland - YouTubePeter Flatland – Google+Peter Flatland & LSC talk about Concave Earth - YouTubemin. 1-2
Jon Deveaugh talks about his approach to Concave Earth
min. 2-7
Joseph Winthrop started approaching Concave Earth last November. He immediately discarded Flat Earth theory. He accepted the theory very quickly. He has a background in electronics. He conducted laser experiments,
all uploaded on YouTube, along with his dad, other relatives and friends. He had some altercations with neighbors and park rangers.
"Flashlight light is different from laser light".
min. 8-10
Joseph Winthrop answers questions on his laser experiments.
Deveaugh and Winthrop agree that the laser confirms the rectilineator's proof that the earth is not convex.
As other tools to measure the curvature of the earth or lack thereof, he mentions the sextant, that measures the angular distance and therefore also the measurement of curvature.
min. 11
Peter Flatland mentions that a video showing the sextant idea was removed within 10 minutes from YouTube. He also mentions that it can tell us how far the sun and the moon are from the earth.
min. 12-13
Steven shows a radio tower diagram that explains how to determine, based on the angle, whether the earth is convex, flat or concave. The diagram is further explained at minute 15.
min. 14
They keep talking about technical details I don't understand. These people do not seem to lack scientific foundations, as accused by the flat earthers. They are not joking either. If you think about it, the most ridiculed group is this group, because the ridiculed flat earthers in turn ridicule them. So, according to my impression that the truth is often ridiculed, these people could actually be the ones who are speaking the truth. Technically, the people in this chat are certainly more knowledgeable and motivated than the average flat earther.
min. 15
lighthouses and radio towers mentioned.
min. 17-20
"Refractive index" of air vs. that of water vapor or vacuum (virtually the same), "light traveling through a denser medium"... Deveaugh gets into the mathematics of concave earth. I can't follow very much, due to my lack of math and physics knowledge.
min. 18
Steven simplifies it.
min. 20
Single-lens reflex camera mentioned by Winthrop as useful for his laser experiments, but too expensive. He talks about measuring the curvature of the earth with a laser. Related video here:
How to Test the Earth's Curvature - 5 MILE LASER - YouTube.
At least 2 miles are necessary for the experiment. This is a way to prove that the earth is not a sphere, so it is also useful for flat earthers.
min. 23
Steven talks about flat earthers, and asks the callers why the flat earthers refuse concave earth. He answers it by saying that it is a way to make money.
min. 25-27
Steven talks about me and this forum, and about how the flat earthers are at each other's throats.
My own reasoning here is that we are at each other's throats because we're all mentally unbalanced, rather than because we are discussing conspiracy theories. We are mentally unbalanced because we spend too much time online (and maybe also we spend too much time online because we are mentally unbalanced, in a vicious circle).
Jon Deveaugh talks about the Rectilineator experiment and his own experience on this forum, with his post here:
serendipitous.boards.net/post/1526/threadJon tells us how he always gets this sort of feedback from non-concave earthers: "the rectilineator was of poor design, it's not rigid, it sagged, and it was done by a pseudo-scientific crackpot". Steven agrees: "they want a quick convenient answer to dismiss it and they don't even want to look at it". I agree that we have had this attitude, too.
They all agree on the validity of the rectilineator and that in fact it was a properly done scientific experiment.
min. 29
Steven explains why they lie to us about concave earth and the rectilineator experiment: too much money and power would be lost.
min. 30
on light bending and flat earth debunkers (and pro-convex earth) who do not assess it properly
min. 32
Steven on glass sky and global flood as the prerequisites to understand concave earth. He also mentions "redshifts" and "quasars".
min. 33
Jon asks Joseph to tell us about the subject of "colors and temperatures" and if you can tell distance by wavelength of the color spectrum. They also mention the so-called "redshift". More on it here, at Jon Deveaugh's blog:
Contradiction: Redshift, Time, Big Bang. a thought.min. 34-36
Joseph, and later Steve, explain that the glass sky... the sun... its temperature... its color. I could not follow, due to my ignorance on the subject, and physics.
min. 37
Joseph Winthrop mentions
Henry Cavendish and his experiment to "
measure the force of gravity between masses in the laboratory".
min. 38
Steven argues that the smaller balls were attracted to the bigger balls due to the "ether", and whether it was
obstructed or not. He also mentions Tesla's "universal compression". More on it here, at Jon Deveaugh's blog:
"No Relation to Reality" Tesla, Einstein, De Palma" min. 39-40
Jon says "everything decays in this universe" and he talks about how this affects the traveling of light, because, in order for light to travel millions of light years, it would need an "infinite range of energy", whereas the energy is "decaying as the light is traveling".
min. 42
Jon on Einstein, relativity, and the fact that "we can't prove gravity". He cites what Einstein said on ether in his address on 5 May 1920 at the University of Leiden:
Einstein: Ether and Relativitymin. 44
Peter asks Jon what he thinks gravity is, whether a pull, a push or what. "
Universal compression is the best way to explain our position" he answers.
min. 46
They all argue that Einstein contradicted himself, was confused and maybe he was not smart as legend has it. This in some way agrees with what I read in
Gerald B. Winrod's Adam Weishaupt: a human devil, written in 1935, that claims (and I tend to believe this type of thing) that Einstein was in touch with demons:
I don't think he was possessed by a demon, but that he was inspired by one. Or maybe he was possessed. I don't know much about the subject, but in either case, since I think his theory is false, a demon deceived us through him, or he deceived us on his account. This is quite close to the case of Hitler, who in my opinion was possessed by a demon. There is even a good documentary on this subject:
BLOOD SACRIFICE: Hidden Occult Secrets of Hitler - YouTube.
min. 47-49
Stephen Hawking seems another similar case, of someone manipulated in order to manipulate the masses. They also mention Matt Boylan's theory and regard it as possible:
The Stephen Hawking's Conspiracy PART 1 .mov - YouTube.
min. 49-50
Their conversation now goes on to discuss other agents used by the powers that be: the smooth-talking Neil deGrasse Tyson...
min. 50-54
...and smooth-talking Mark Sargent. Jon remarks how ridiculous it is that in the US, if you have a British accent, you are trusted more.
Steven goes on to analyze the excellent PowerPoint presentations that Mark Sargent gives, which are nonetheless wrong and unreasonable, and the emotional nature of his flat-earth fans that makes them superficially embrace and greet his message.
Jon on the flight routes in the southern hemisphere.
Steven asks Mark Sargent, since he doesn't get paid, what his incentive is for doing all the work he is doing, and why he doesn't answer his calls. Related video here:
Calling Fahlat Urther Mark Sargent, Hello? - YouTubeSteven mentions Mark's theory on flight routes, too. He says he had never thought, when he started talking about concave earth, that he would have to combat flat earth theory.
They all agree that flat earth is unreasonable, just as flat-earthers conversely say that concave earth is unreasonable:
serendipitous.boards.net/post/1689/threadmin. 55-58
Steven's rant on "Eric Dubay-my book": how many books has he written and how many books has he sold?
Peter and Steven on flght routes.
Steven on his battling flat-earthers
Jon on the "Azimuthal Equidistant" map. See our own thread here:
serendipitous.boards.net/thread/9/azimuthal-equidistantmin. 58-60
Jon says flat earthers think like this: "how many people can we get to join the club -- we'll just pick up stuff as we go along...". It is true to some degree. I got convinced by just one documentary.
Great ridicule by everyone regarding flat earthers, in one case motivated by Joseph with the faulty claim that for us the earth is always rising, but Steven corrects him: "they have different camps". Good imitation of Eric Dubay by Steven, who summarizes the situation by saying "...You flat earthers have a million times more problems than what you think we have problems with, which we don't".
61
Jon: "flat earth is very religious...". Bible is indeed very important for at least half of the flat earthers.
62
Steven and the "retrograde motion of the planets", comets, and how he might do a related video to debunk flat earth.
63-64
Jon on the flood wiping out ancient civilizations and how Atlantis might have existed. Pyramids were found buried near Japan.
Jon thinks the heliocentric model was not meant as a lie but that "it was accepted before it was verified", and once that happened, they started filtering out everything that did not agree with the model. In a way this is what flat earthers are accused of doing by embracing a theory without verifying it, maybe just because they are encouraged by the music being played in one of those flat earth documentaries.
So, basically, after having accepted the heliocentric model, the scientists' compartmentalization and the filtering made it so that the "predetermined model" succeeded in blocking out the truth -- not necessarily due to a conspiracy. This is similar to what Mark Sargent says, if I remember correctly: it happened by accident and when they found out that it wasn't a sphere, they decided to hide it. Obviously Jon is not going to conclude that they decided to hide that it is flat but that it is concave...
65
...Peter says "very few people really know the truth".
Jon on "predetermined bias" that makes everything fit into the accepted model, by filtering through what doesn't work.
66
Jon on "hypothetical models", based on "hypothetical data", obtained through "hypothetical filters".
68
Jon stresses out that it doesn't matter what the data is -- it cannot be thrown away because it doesn't fit the model.
69
Jon: "the concave earth is picking up some steam" but it is up against the secular world, that is slowly "gaining steam as well".
70
Jon: if you admit earth is concave, after going through verifiable experiments, you also end up having to admit that there is an architect, that is to say God.
71
Steven mentions the Ottawa Citizen's article that talks about him:
Why don't people trust science?73-81
Jon talks about his spiritual background, after being asked by Steven. Actually he ends up telling us his whole philosophy and the last 15 years of his life.
He starts by talking about when 911 happened, when he was 19 years old, in New York.
He read the whole Bible, and the whole Quran, and he checked out, "like a detective", all the different religions.
VERY INTERESTING - A SCIENTIFIC APPROACH TO RELIGION. I think this is the first time I hear someone who adopted this approach so systematically.
His conclusion is this: Israel is behind the conspiracy, and in fact he phrases it even without calling it a "conspiracy", because they are known facts.
Jon talks about debates on online radio shows, and their "word games". For example, he discusses on the different meanings of "faith".
By browsing online he ultimately came to flat earth. He never believed in it, but he wanted to know how some people believed in it. So he started studying it, point by point, once again, methodically. He is the most methodical person I have met on the internet.
81
Steven apologizes for arguing against flat earthers.
Jon on Bill Cooper and other conspiracy theories.
82
Jon and Steven on God, and leaving religion outside the concave earth debate.
Steven says that Christians tend to reject concave earth due to their religion. "Some people think it is demonic".
84
ancient civilizations that got wiped out already had today's technologies, maybe knew even more about astronomy than we do now
86
Peter says he is a mechanic as well (Jon had mentioned that he, among the other things, is a mechanic and can build computers).
87-94
Peter says he came to concave earth, because when he was 13 he actually saw the earth being concave.
He was at a beach, by himself, the calmest day ever, the water was like glass, and he could hear waves breaking in the distance, and with his binoculars, he saw an island a few miles away, where the waves were hitting...
the waves were breaking in sets of three
I don't understand exactly what he saw (a drawing would be more effective) but he decided that the earth had to be concave for him to see that.
He is a Christian, and he prayed to be shown the light. Within 3 days, he found out about 911. Then he discovered chemtrails... and he started to question things.
He had a vision when he was 10, that he probably already discussed in his interview with Steven (cf. link at top of this post). He says he shares the subject of these visions with Steven.
Steven then talks about his vision and repeatedly mentions "seeing the back of the sun".
94-95
Detailed description of Steven's vision.
96-100
Steven describes his religious background:
1) he grew up Catholic
2) he went into the Carismatic Christian church, but then stopped
3) around the year 2000, he started reading the KJV Bible
4) 2001-2003: geocentrist
5) debating an atheist friend
6) cyrus teed... in 3 days he switched from geocentric to concave
100 to end of session
Joseph talks about being brought up Catholic and going to a Catholic school
From California
His father started experimenting with several religions
Public school
Alex Jones
New Age
2013: he became Christian, by reading the Bible and the New Testament
Conspiracy forums, and seeing flat earth... thinking about it, but then he saw a concave earth thread, and when he found out he was not joking, he studied it and understood that it is true.
