|
Post by dionysios on Oct 15, 2015 18:55:26 GMT 1
'Denying History' By Michael Shermer en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shermer en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denying_History www.michaelshermer.com/denying-history/ This book is the best single volume and "down to earth" refutation of holocaust revisionism I have encountered. Holocaust Debate: Greg Weber (Institute for Historical Review) versus Michael Shermer www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l8ZUVVB4z8 One of the best things about this particular debate is that it is civilized. The debaters are mutually respectfully of their opponents. Michael Shermer is acquainted with holocaust revisionist literature and acknowledges myths such as human soap and other embellishments which he separates from verifiable facts such as gas chambers. He lacks the fanaticism of many who share his position and treats his opponents themselves with respect albeit not uncritical of some of their positions.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2015 19:02:59 GMT 1
Yes, I totally agree with you and him. Also, I very much appreciate, of the historical revisionists, David Cole (Jewish himself), who is calm and respectful.
Personally, I find more credible the fact that the Holocaust really happened, although probably not as many as six million Jews died.
|
|
|
Post by dionysios on Oct 15, 2015 22:49:47 GMT 1
Raul Hilberg's estimate is 5.1 million Jews murdered. I just got his three volume book 'Destruction of European Jews' which I understand to be widely regarded as the definitive history of the Jewish holocaust. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Destruction_of_the_European_Jews It first appeared as a thesis for his degree in 1948 eventually published in book form in 1961. A revised and vastly expanded 3 volume second edition appeared in 1985 which accounted for new information including exchanges with other holocaust scholars (such as Hannah Arendt) with different often opposing perspectives. I have read in holocaust revisionist literature that he actually changed his statement about Hitler's official decree in this second edition as the claim made in the first edition was pigeonholed by studious hocaust deniers. Finally, before Hilberg passed on, a third edition was published in 2002 which incorporated knowledge from Soviet archives which had been opened by Gorbachev. Norman Finkelstein came under attack after his book 'The Holocaust Industry' was published criticizing the Zionists who profit from the tragedy and also failing to recognize the hypocrisy of Israeli treatment of Palestinians as exemplified in this Classic video: m.youtube.com/watch?v=6O5zgXeCynQ To his eternal credit, when Norman Finkelstein was in his darkest hour, shortly before he died, the original holocaust scholar Raul Hilberg came forward in support of Finkelstein asserting his cause was right.
|
|
|
Post by dionysios on Oct 15, 2015 23:08:36 GMT 1
I have found the books by Yisrael Gutman to be especially good on this subject. In particular, he was the senior editor and compiler of 'Anatomy of Auschwitz' which is the definitive book on the most severe and famous Nazi extermination camp. Aside from the truth, it's incomparably more intense than Arthur Butz's comparatively effeminate (and false) history claiming it was a myth. He was also the editor of the four volume Encyclopaedia of the Holocaust as well as a well rounded and readable English language history of the Warsaw ghetto uprising. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Gutman As far as the Jews of Greece, Steven Bowman has written several excellent works including histories of Greek Jews even as far back as the Paleologue dynasty of Eastern Rome (1204-1453). Bowman's books on persecutions during WWII demonstrate that the communists were generally the only community throughout Greece that helped Jews, and I think this is true on a wider scale beyond Greece as well. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_B._Bowman It was through Steven Bowman that I discovered Andrew Sharf, a historian of Jews in Byzantium. Shark also wrote an excellent book (back in 1964) exposing the silence and contemptual attitude of the British press towards German Jews during the holocaust. Albert Khan and also John Spivak have written well about pro-fascist sympathies pervading the American press in the midst of WWII and even as the Nazis were on the run from the Soviets after 1943.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2015 5:59:54 GMT 1
Very useful information, thanks.
|
|
|
Post by dionysios on Nov 23, 2015 12:03:52 GMT 1
'Never Forget' (abbridged version) www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G1zZY4UFy8 1980's movie about an actual holocaust denial court case in the US starring Leonard Nimoy as holocaust survivor Mel Mermelstein and Dabney Coleman as his lawyer in their victorious case against the Institute of Historical Review. Apparently none of the names have been changed from those of the real life people represented. Mermelstein (who is still alive) wrote an autobiography about this case entitled 'By Bread Alone.' en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Mermelstein
|
|
|
Post by dionysios on Nov 25, 2015 8:58:47 GMT 1
'Mr. Death' walrusvideo.com/mr-death-the-rise-and-fall-of-fred-a-leuchter-jr/ Documentary Movie About Fred Leuchter Fred Leuchter's 1988 visit to Auschwitz where he obtained peices of the gas chamber walls for subsequent professional laboratory analysis to determine evidence of any cyanide residue which has been the chief scientific evidence relied upon by holocaust deniers. This documentary provides information which proves Leuchter's evidence is useless.
|
|
|
Post by dionysios on Nov 25, 2015 9:44:36 GMT 1
I recently got the four volume Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, but it's also online: www.ushmm.org/learn/holocaust-encyclopedia The Jewish Holocaust Memorial Museum in Los Angeles is one of the two main places I'd like to visit there (the other being the La Brea Tar Pits with fossils of large dragon and pterodactyl size birds and other such animals considered "prehistoric") as it's the oldest Jewish holocaust museum in the US having been founded in the early 1950's.
|
|
|
Post by dionysios on Nov 25, 2015 9:49:42 GMT 1
It appears from the documentary video about Fred Leuchter that the books of Robert Jan van Pelt are a learned source for the refutation of holocaust denial.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 13:51:27 GMT 1
I am all for this refutation, so thanks for the documents. I've watched that movie you posted earlier, with Leonard Nimoy.
|
|
|
Post by dionysios on Nov 25, 2015 19:37:35 GMT 1
Thanks. I got his book 'By Bread Alone' through Amazon.
The other dubious Nazi ideology that could use a more widespread debunking is anti-communism which was the fascist idea behind the Cold War.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 19:40:51 GMT 1
Well, yes, there is that concept that many conspiracy researchers have that the two super-powers were complicit at most if not all levels. But then, one wonders, are they still complicit today? Is Putin planning events together with Obama, in full agreement?
|
|
|
Post by dionysios on Nov 26, 2015 6:00:08 GMT 1
Willis Carto, the founder of the Institute For Historical Review in the late 1970's and also the Liberty Lobby back in the the 1950's among other organizations and newspapers, just died last month (October 2015). en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Carto
|
|
|
Post by dionysios on Nov 26, 2015 6:31:38 GMT 1
As to Obama and Putin, my opinion is they are both creatures of capitalism in spite of the fact that they are probably the best leaders either country has had in decades.
It's worth pointing out that the majority (but not all) of Obama's critics are right wing morons who are far worse than he himself and typically criticize him for all the wrong reasons. This category includes multitudes of misguided and brainwashed American white men as well as well as his fascist opponents in Congress. Roosevelt faced the same opposition from southern Democrats who disfigured the New Deal into a program that preserved the parasitical American system by pacifying the exploited by giving them a carrot which is what Obama's done. He's a reformer, not a revolutionary. The system is past reform.
|
|
|
Post by dionysios on Nov 28, 2015 7:30:04 GMT 1
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 15:08:41 GMT 1
|
|