Post by cal on Dec 12, 2015 17:18:04 GMT 1
heathen said:
Interesting that the association has been made with flat-earthism and a cult. I agree with you that the FE leaders are not my leaders, and that there really isn't any defined set of beliefs and/or values. However, let us delve into this concept for a bit and maybe indulge ourselves a little. The word 'cult' is defined in my Funk and Wagnall's Standard College Dictionary as follows: "1. A system of religious rites and observances; the cult of Aphrodite. 2. Zealous devotion to a person, ideal or thing. 3. The object of this devotion. 4. The followers of a cult; a sect. -- Syn. See Religion."
I have heard it said that the word 'cult' comes from the word culture, and therefore is simply any group of people who think or act the same. Thus by this definition even people who work for the same company are in some sense a cult. Here is one of the many definitions of the word 'culture:' "6. Anthropol. The sum total of the attainments and learned behavior patterns of any specific period, race, or people, regarded as expressing a traditional way of life subject to gradual but continuous modification by succeeding generations."
So now let us look at the more complex word 'religion.' There are many definitions of this word. I have always heard that it comes from the Latin word religare which means <re-back + ligare-to bind.> Here is F & W definition:
In my search for a definition of religion I came across a few interesting ones. Merriam-Webster has the most succinct definition:
Despite my dislike of Wikipedia, its definition is pretty good:
This site has a collection of quotations on the Definitions of Religion. Here are only a few of which I thought were good:
Probably the best site, as far as definitions go, was this one Problems. Dictionary definitions.
But I got the most kick out of this site, What is Religion?, an atheist site. BTW atheism is a religion too. From this site The Encyclopedia of Philosophy defines religion as:
The page author then goes on to refine his definition with the following caveats:
So our refined definition is:
So now let's have a little fun with it.
Now FakeSpaceman InSpace is calling this a cult. I don't know if I'd say that but I can see what he means. It hasn't even been proven and the leaders are not leaders for me. I disagree with the values attached to much of the FE movement as well, and I don't believe FE proves those values and beliefs should be followed. For all I can tell, most of these people aren't theologians or philosophers yet we are told how the FE will change human behavior.
There's nothing uniting any of these FE'ers together accept the concept the Earth is flat and we've all been lied to (conspiracies). Beyond that, there's nothing uniting them, not ideas, not theology, not philosophy, not nationality, not even religion. But somehow FE is a movement where we also are apparently given morals and values and oughts. But none of these various people came together with an agreed upon, and open, belief system or worldview to be able to have the structure of a religion, or philosophy, or even common heritage and traditions to be able to tell us all what to value, and do or not do. I hear things beyond FE that I don't agree with and I don't hear any basis for why we ought to value or do anything any youtube personality says. I see a whole lot of FE viewers that never existed before 2015. FE used to be a desert on youtube compared to this. I wonder if many of these people believe FE is really attached to the morality and values some may have attached to it?
There's nothing uniting any of these FE'ers together accept the concept the Earth is flat and we've all been lied to (conspiracies). Beyond that, there's nothing uniting them, not ideas, not theology, not philosophy, not nationality, not even religion. But somehow FE is a movement where we also are apparently given morals and values and oughts. But none of these various people came together with an agreed upon, and open, belief system or worldview to be able to have the structure of a religion, or philosophy, or even common heritage and traditions to be able to tell us all what to value, and do or not do. I hear things beyond FE that I don't agree with and I don't hear any basis for why we ought to value or do anything any youtube personality says. I see a whole lot of FE viewers that never existed before 2015. FE used to be a desert on youtube compared to this. I wonder if many of these people believe FE is really attached to the morality and values some may have attached to it?
I have heard it said that the word 'cult' comes from the word culture, and therefore is simply any group of people who think or act the same. Thus by this definition even people who work for the same company are in some sense a cult. Here is one of the many definitions of the word 'culture:' "6. Anthropol. The sum total of the attainments and learned behavior patterns of any specific period, race, or people, regarded as expressing a traditional way of life subject to gradual but continuous modification by succeeding generations."
So now let us look at the more complex word 'religion.' There are many definitions of this word. I have always heard that it comes from the Latin word religare which means <re-back + ligare-to bind.> Here is F & W definition:
1. The beliefs, attitudes, emotions, behavior, etc., constituting man's relationship with the powers and principles of the universe, especially with a deity or deities; also any particular system of such beliefs, attitudes, etc. 2. An essential part or a practical test of the spiritual life. 3. An object of conscientious devotion or scrupulous care. 4. Obs. Religious practice or belief.
--Syn. 1. Religion, faith, cult, denomination, church, and sect denote a particular system of religious beliefs or the persons that adhere to it. Religion is the general name for all such systems, from earliest recorded history to the present day. A faith is a clearly formulated system of religious beliefs and worship. A cult is an agglomeration of practices, not necessarily theistic; the word is often applied to forms of religious worship which are regarded with suspicion or disfavor. A denomination is a group of persons adhering to a particular creed under a distinctive name; Baptists, Methodists, and Presbyterians are separate Christian denominations. Church is interchangeable with denomination in this sense. A sect is a smaller group within a denomination, especially one that differs from the larger body in a particular matter of faith or worship. Sect is also used derogatorily of a denomination, to stress the separateness or particularity.
--Syn. 1. Religion, faith, cult, denomination, church, and sect denote a particular system of religious beliefs or the persons that adhere to it. Religion is the general name for all such systems, from earliest recorded history to the present day. A faith is a clearly formulated system of religious beliefs and worship. A cult is an agglomeration of practices, not necessarily theistic; the word is often applied to forms of religious worship which are regarded with suspicion or disfavor. A denomination is a group of persons adhering to a particular creed under a distinctive name; Baptists, Methodists, and Presbyterians are separate Christian denominations. Church is interchangeable with denomination in this sense. A sect is a smaller group within a denomination, especially one that differs from the larger body in a particular matter of faith or worship. Sect is also used derogatorily of a denomination, to stress the separateness or particularity.
: the belief in a god or in a group of gods
: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods
: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group
: an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods
: an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group
A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.[note 1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning of life, the origin of life, or the Universe. From their beliefs about the cosmos and human nature, people may derive morality, ethics, religious laws, or a preferred lifestyle.
Many religions may have organized behaviors, clergy, a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership, holy places, and scriptures. The practice of a religion may include rituals, sermons, commemoration or veneration (of a deity, gods, or goddesses), sacrifices, festivals, feasts, trances, initiations, funerary services, matrimonial services, meditation, prayer, music, art, dance, public service, or other aspects of human culture. Religions may also contain mythology.[1]
The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or set of duties;[2] however, in the words of Émile Durkheim, religion differs from private belief in that it is "something eminently social".[3]
Many religions may have organized behaviors, clergy, a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership, holy places, and scriptures. The practice of a religion may include rituals, sermons, commemoration or veneration (of a deity, gods, or goddesses), sacrifices, festivals, feasts, trances, initiations, funerary services, matrimonial services, meditation, prayer, music, art, dance, public service, or other aspects of human culture. Religions may also contain mythology.[1]
The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or set of duties;[2] however, in the words of Émile Durkheim, religion differs from private belief in that it is "something eminently social".[3]
"Religion is the human attitude towards a sacred order that includes within it all being—human or otherwise—i.e., belief in a cosmos, the meaning of which both includes and transcends man."
~ Peter Berger
"Religion is the daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to ignorance the nature of the Unknowable."
~ Ambrose Bierce
"A religion is a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say, things set apart and forbidden—beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a Church, all those who adhere to them."
~ Emile Durkheim
"One's religion is whatever he is most interested in."
~J.M. Barrie, The Twelve-Pound Look (1910)
"Pure religion and undefiled before God the Father is this: To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
~James 1:27, New Testament
~ Peter Berger
"Religion is the daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to ignorance the nature of the Unknowable."
~ Ambrose Bierce
"A religion is a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say, things set apart and forbidden—beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a Church, all those who adhere to them."
~ Emile Durkheim
"One's religion is whatever he is most interested in."
~J.M. Barrie, The Twelve-Pound Look (1910)
"Pure religion and undefiled before God the Father is this: To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
~James 1:27, New Testament
But I got the most kick out of this site, What is Religion?, an atheist site. BTW atheism is a religion too. From this site The Encyclopedia of Philosophy defines religion as:
- Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
- A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
- Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
- A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
- Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
- Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
- A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
- A more or less total organization of one’s life based on the world view.
- A social group bound together by the above.
This definition captures much of what religion is across diverse cultures. It includes sociological, psychological, and historical factors and allows for broader gray areas in the concept of religion. It’s not without flaws, though. The first marker, for example, is about “supernatural beings” and gives “gods” as an example, but thereafter only gods are mentioned. Even the concept of “supernatural beings” is a bit too specific; Mircea Eliade defined religion in reference to a focus on “the sacred” and that is a good replacement for “supernatural beings” because not every religion revolves around the supernatural.
So our refined definition is:
- Belief in something sacred (for example, gods or other supernatural beings).
- A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
- Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
- A moral code believed to have a sacred or supernatural basis.
- Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual.
- Prayer and other forms of communication with the supernatural.
- A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
- A more or less total organization of one’s life based on the world view.
- A social group bound together by the above.
So now let's have a little fun with it.
- The belief in something sacred is undoubtedly the unknowable concept that the earth is flat. This belief is transcendent in that it is beyond the flat-earther to be able to explain it, but it resides within his soul and has a grip on his very being.
- There is without question a distinction between sacred and profane objects. Only flat earth perceived concepts are tolerated within real Flat Earth Churches (websites, videos, blogs, etc).
- Ritual acts focused on sacred objects are seen daily. Anyone who does not perform immediate homage to the deity of flat-earthism by posting non-flat-earth dogma is ostracized from the FE community, surely as swiftly as if s/he were a witch. No deviation from FE doctrines and sacred doctrines will be tolerated.
- A moral code believed to have a sacred or supernatural basis. You are right heathen, there is no moral code to be a flat-earther.
- Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual. Mindless likes, repetition of flat earth dogmas will generate that sense of awe and worship in the confessor.
- Prayer and other forms of communication with the supernatural. Don't we all strive to communicate with some of the clergy who are the pastors, preachers, and teachers? We revel when we actually get to speak/communicate with the likes of these leaders and feel close to the divine in doing so. But don't say a bad word about these leaders, because they are close to God and could never lie. See the above re ostracizing...
- A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. At the church of Eric Dubay, one derives their doctrine, their worship protocols, and are told what to believe in order to belong. Don't offend the god or you will suffer his wrath. An equally vengeful god is the Lord Steven Christopher at the cult of the Concave Earth who will send you to the FEMA camps with worse punishment in the life hereafter.
- A more or less total organization of one’s life based on the world view. Don't let the world of flat-earthism consume you. If it does, you will know when every day you base your life on getting your flat earth fix.
- A social group bound together by the above. Which flat earth church(es) do you attend? Some flat-earthers do not see themselves as unfaithful if they belong to and attend more than one flat earth church. There are many to choose from, some older than others and better established: The Flat Earth Society, IFERS, Serendipitous, Flat Earth Sanctuary, Free Speech and Respect, etc.
One thing flat earthers forget is that these maps are all projections of a sphere…
